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A film critic in search of a brief description of David Lynch might call him the most important avant-garde filmmaker of the last thirty years. Lynch infamously describes himself somewhat differently; for years, his press-packet bio has read, in its entirety, "Eagle Scout, Missoula, Montana." Is Lynch being sarcastic, or sincere? Is he a cynic and satirist, as some critics, including Roger Ebert, have alleged? Or is he really the grown-up Boy Scout that pithy autobiography implies?

Whatever you think of his films, in person, Lynch is definitely the latter. Though he's famously reluctant to answer questions about his films (in a recent New York Times profile, he remarks, "Talking — it's real dangerous"), he is also thoughtful, gentlemanly, and in possession of an underpublicised — but acute — sense of humor.

The only challenge in interviewing Lynch is what to ask the master in only half an hour. His thirty-years of older work aside, his new film Inland Empire presents more than enough questions to fill a conversation. A vast, mind-boggling odyssey, it may be his most challenging work since Eraserhead. And though Lynch certainly didn't "unlock its mysteries" — if such a thing is possible — he had plenty to say. — Peter Smith

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Inland Empire started as a series of short films. When did you first see it as a whole piece?
I can't even remember. I would get an idea for a scene, and I would shoot that scene. Then I'd get another idea for a scene, write it, and shoot it. I'd say maybe five scenes in, I started getting an indication of the whole thing out there. But at first, I had no idea that it was going to be a feature film. I didn't know what it was. It might have been five or six scenes. I didn't know. And I was shooting them all on DV, and really enjoying that process, and then started seeing how one scene related to another, and things started happening. I know you would like to hear in more detail, but that's kind of it.

You wouldn't say there was a moment where things first coalesced?
Well, there was sort of a moment, and I would like to remember that [laughs]. But I don't remember.

Most of your films are dark in some ways, but this film is particularly dark, very frightening and very abrasive.
Sounds beautiful! Well, it's got those elements to it, but it also kind of pokes through into something, which we won't go into. . . I think, you know, stories are like that, and that's the beautiful thing about them.

In Blue Velvet, or in Eraserhead or The Elephant Man or even in Mulholland Dr., there are moments of redemption. In Inland Empire, those moments are few and far between. What led you in that direction?
Ideas. One is lost without ideas. What are you gonna do when you wake up in the morning, if you don't have an idea? Not a whole lot. So the whole thing depends on ideas. And when those things start popping along, it's euphoric. It's not like you sit there and say "I would like to think up something that's even darker than what was before." Not at all. You're just following the ideas, translating the ideas.

What are your recollections of meeting Laura Dern, back when you were making Blue Velvet?
She remembers it better than I do. She just mentioned the other day that when I first met her, I couldn't speak to her. All I said to her was, "I gotta take a leak!" And then, once I did that, I could speak. But I met her when I was seventeen — when she was seventeen — and so I've known her for four full years. [pause] That's a joke.

She gives an amazing performance in this film.
When I was casting Blue Velvet, I saw a lot of people. I saw her early on, and it wasn't a done deal, but I was so taken with her. There was one other girl who came close, in my mind, but didn't top Laura. She's a great actress. And now, kind of like family to me. She owes me so much [laughs]. You know, it's a two-way street, because Laura gives so much, and you can rely on her, and she's so much fun to work with. She's good in every way.

Why do you think actors are so loyal to you and your work?
It's their huge salaries. No, we just have a really good time. You're going down the same path together, and it draws people together. So when you get real close, and you kind of bond in this world. It's a real beautiful thing cause you're in another world together, carving out this space as you go, and behind you are these finished scenes, ahead of you is kind of an unknown thing. It's pretty intense, but intensely beautiful.

Speaking of your old collaborators, have you seen Crispin Glover's film?
I haven't seen it. I read the script for it. I love Crispin. I love him. His scenes in Wild at Heart are just the best.

Would you work with him again?
I'd love to work with Crispin. There are a lot of people you'd love to work with, but you need the part.

Roger Ebert has always been critical of your work, and he all but accused you of exploitation in making Blue Velvet.
I love Roger Ebert. You know, a critic is just a human being. You can't argue with what people say. When a film comes out, if it's different in any way than what's been done before, it's a little bit of a storm. And then after a while, the dust settles and you can see the thing for what it is. And some live and some die. I think it was interesting that he was against it and his partner Siskel was for it. It made a great argument, and people sided one way or another. But he really loves films, and has been a supporter of cinema. He just has his own take.

Lately he's liked your films more; he gave Mulholland Dr. and The Straight Story four stars. Do you know if he's come around on Blue Velvet at all?
I talked to him at Cannes or some place. . . I don't know if he said he came around, but I felt talking to him that he was a really good guy. So I don't care what people say really, if they're good people.

I think he saw a cynicism that I don't feel is there in the film.
Uh-huh. See, there's an expression: "The world is as you are." So, if you're one way, you kind of see that in the world, and if you're another way you see this. Something really upset him in that. Maybe he was in love with Ingrid Bergman.

There's a moment of redemption when the robins appear at the end of Blue Velvet. I think he saw that as sarcastic, and I've always taken that as completely sincere. Related to that, I was reading up on your comic strip, "The Angriest Dog in the World", and somebody said, "The comic strip originated from a time in Lynch's life when he was filled with anger." And your films can be very harsh, but I've never thought of you as an angry filmmaker. I think there's a lot of romance in your films. Do you think that's fair?
Yeah. "The Angriest Dog in the World" wasn't really about anger in me, it was more. . . anger in that dog.

Eraserhead is a very dark film, but something like the Lady in the Radiator is unsettling but very strangely comforting too.
Right. I always say Eraserhead is my most spiritual film. But a lot of people wouldn't put that in the "spiritual film" section of the video store.

One article I read called it the greatest filmmaking experience of your life.
Making it? What was great about it was — now echoed in the experience of Inland Empire — the total freedom. Very few people going down a road — over a long period of time, because I kept running out of money. But I was real protected and I could find my way. Filmmaking has gotten real organized. Even if you have final cut, a whole bunch of things surround a film when you go out working. It's not true for, say, a young girl director in Memphis. She could do whatever she wants. Get ahold of a video camera and get some friends together or go down to the theater and cast. But as soon as you start, these things sprout around you, and it can be kind of a nightmare. In Eraserhead those things weren't there. Inland Empire approached that level of freedom.

So it was the best of times, the worst of times?
Well, this was just the best of times. But with Eraserhead there were "worst of times" because I kept running out of money.

Tell me about your shot at directing Return of the Jedi.
That's a long story, but in a nutshell, it wouldn't have been directing at all. It's George Lucas' show. It's George Lucas' ideas, it's George Lucas' characters, it's all coming from George Lucas. So I didn't know what in the world I could do with it. But it still was a nice thing to meet George and get asked to do that.

You were a defender of Ronald Reagan in the '80s —
No, no, no. You know, we live in a time where everything that anyone has ever said, or that someone else has said that they said, goes on some site. It's kind of cool in some ways, but then you need to explain certain things.

Well, let's get this one correct for all time.
Reagan cleared brush. That's what I liked about him. My father grew up on a ranch in Montana, and I grew up in Western American thinking, sort of like cowboys in the past on my father's side. So I liked him for that, and I liked this one speech he read early on, at some convention. But at that time, I thought of myself as a libertarian. I believed in next to zero government. And I still would lean toward no government and not so many rules, except for traffic lights and things like this. I really believe in traffic regulations [pause]. Some stop signs are really absurd. Like at night, at two a.m., I come to a stop sign, obviously, no cars are coming. And when I stop at that stop sign, I feel like a fool. It's so ridiculous. And other times, when it's heavy traffic, and the light turns yellow, I really have a strong desire to stop, and to keep the car stopped until the light turns, and then to look both ways before going forward. A lot of situations are a matter of life and death. So I believe in traffic rules.

Uh-huh.
But now, I don't know if there even is a Libertarian party. They wouldn't have a prayer of getting anywhere. So I'm a Democrat now. And I've always been a Democrat, really. But I don't like the Democrats a lot, either, because I'm a smoker, and I think a lot of the Democrats have come up with these rules for non-smoking. And I don't think that that's necessarily so bad, but they have to give the smokers a place. You're just like an animal now. Not a clean animal, but a mangy, soiled, urine-soaked animal with remnants, and you're sent outdoors. Animals on my dad's ranch were always kept outdoors, because they weren't like house pets. Now, house pets are treated way better than smokers.

I have two cats.
They're beautiful, they're brought inside, it's warm, and there're all these little toys for them. I saw on TV that there're even little steps you can get so they can crawl up on the bed in your room. And you can get two steps for the price of one if you order real soon. There are no fuckin' steps for any smokers. There is no way to crawl up into bed to have a smoke. You're sent outdoors. And they don't give a shit what the temperature is. Or if it's raining. It's beyond the beyond. And no one even spoke to me about this. I wake up one morning and it's reality.

I shouldn't have asked!
It's. . . I don't know. It's a democracy, but I don't know. . . it's a weird time.

Do you still relate entirely to your older films? Are there things you wish you could change in them?
I've got two sons. One of them is fourteen. So he and I have sat together over the last six months, and he's now seen all my films. We saw them together. It's kind of cool. You know, you work on them 'til they feel correct, and then they're done. And they felt correct, even now.

Recently I got a whole bunch of paintings out of storage, and I think there's something good about having some old work around, because you might have been working on some ideas, and if you see those things from time to time, they could spur new ideas, or fire you up for some new idea. Yeah, it was okay.

But you never think, gosh, I wish I had cut that differently. . .
They were very close to perfection [laughs].

You're a lucky guy — how many artists could say that?
I might've just been in a good mood or something.



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©2006 Peter Smith & Nerve.com


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